ADHD - Are We Making This Up? - Part 2
Posted by Scribeman01 on October 4th, 2007
We introduced Rebecca in our last post: ADHD - Are We Making This Up? The subject was about the so-called experts, including a gentleman by the name of Bob Collier, (and under influence of a retired Doctor Baughman) that feel that ADHD is an artificially made up condition. Like any person that wishes to support his positions, Mr. Collier cites certain articles and experts, including Dr. Baughman that talks about the alarming rate use of drug stimulants (no argument there), and that this whole ADD-ADHD term is made up so the big pharmaceuticals can sell a lot of Adderall, Ritilin, etc.
I guess this means we should all celebrate because we aren’t ADHD! 
Geez, with all of the hyper-focusing we do, how come we didn’t catch this one?
Back to Rebecca (not her real name to protect her identity).
Somehow, Rebecca had some issues with Bob Collier’s ADD-ADHD and Dr. Baughman’s denial and had the “moxy” to contact Mr. Collier to try and hlep him better understand why we and our ADHD are not in the fiction section of your local public library. Rebecca has a lot of personal experience with ADD-ADHD deniers . . .
This is now Rebecca writing (with a challenge to Bob Collier) :
I have spent the last couple of days in very interesting conversation with a Bob Collier, one of Baughman’s followers. (Baughman is unfortunately a very influential naysayer who challenges the validity of ADHD) He has a couple of sites that support that ADHD is a myth.. Won’t even attempt to pollute this site with his comments or the links to his site.
Anyways . . . I presented a challenge to Dr. B and Mr. Collier — Dr B was cc”d by Mr Collier - simple challenge to put his money where his mouth is. If he really thinks that ADHD is not real, that it is only a scam created by the medical community . . . try the following:
Create a Publicly Announced CONTROLLED Scientific study.. A simple one for sure. Get a number of diagnosed, articulate ADHD ADULTS in a room for several hours. Adults, because we may be better able to describe their physical feelings.
Make sure that none of these individuals haven’t taken any form of medication or supplements. Then interview them/us, see how they/we are, what they/we are like. Ask them to describe their emotions, their feelings - have them/us perform complex tasks. Tasks that we have difficulty performing or following through.
Then have us/them take their medication and interview them again.
I suggested that the test must be performed in a controlled environment and for fairness and neutrality, there must be ADHD Medical Experts who are also involved with the questioning and research. In fact out of fairness, there should be a meta study (meta-analysis combines the results of several studies that address a set of related research hypotheses) so that there will be no doubt or concern.
This challenge was offered to Collier on Monday Morning, and was forwarded to Dr. B about an hour ago. At this time, I got a lot of foot dancing from Collier, where the challenge has not been acknowledged.
As I asked in my email, what does he have to lose if he “really” believes in what many believe to be totally unsupported personal thoughts and rhetoric.
I will advise the group to his response . . .
But, I did suggest that there would be many who would be willing to have him put up or shut up . . l
What are your thoughts?
I will share some more of mine in the next post . . .
October 5th, 2007 at 5:34 am
[…] one more thing. Please ignore this “Rebecca” lady. She thinks she’s got A.D.D. disease and refuses to acknowledge that it does not exist. […]
October 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Jeff,
I am confused at your response. You stated a double negative - refuse and does Not.. so are you saying that I don’t believe that ADHD is real? or are you saying that I am Believe that ADHD is Real.
Jeff, I am living proof that ADHD is as real as the keyboard I am using to type this to you. As real as life is itself.
Having suffered from the disorder (I will NOT call it a disease) for All my life; from the challenges that it created, from the challenges from the individuals who did not believe that it was real and kept thinking that I could just “fix” myself, or that I was a bratty kid, and all those other labels that come from it.. I can attest for the realness, and the Sadness of what we suffer. Yes, I am diagnosed, and yes, I am on prescription medication. It works for me.
Jeff, my hope is that We the individuals who from real life experience know and relate to this disorder can stand togethor - united, and become a Voice that will help push for more scientific advancement and knowledge. To bring more public awareness, so that Teachers and schools will better accomodate us. That our parents will no longer feel guilt. That we no longer need to feel shame and instead we can learn that we are indeed good people, strong people, beautiful people who have AMAZING Talents and Ability.
I don’t know where or how translation in my hopes may have been missed.. but, I truly do hope that we can unite as a front, and quiet the naysayers who don’t understand or believe.
Thanks so much for allowing me to Present my story.
Rebecca
October 7th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Forgive the double post but, there was one other thing I wanted to mention - it is difficult enough to have the “normals” challenge you everyday in the real world, but, to have another person who is also an individual who faces the problems of ADHD question you, without even attempting to reach out and get to either know me, understand me, or my motives - well, that was indeed dis-heartening..
We should be helping each other, not discrediting!
MHO
October 7th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Hi Rebecca, Thank you for writing back. In reading Jeff’s post, to me, he clearly is supporting you as I am. If you review his post here, and the ones on his website, you will see that he has a fun, cynical style of writing.
When Jeff wrote “…one more thing. Please ignore this “Rebecca” lady. She thinks she’s got A.D.D. disease and refuses to acknowledge that it does not exist,” Jeff is really mocking the deformed logic of Bob Collier and Dr. Baughman.
If you also have a chance to check out Jeff’s website, you will see that he was not ADHD diagnosed until he was in his 40’s.
Rebecca, you have a lot of courage and moxy for coming out and challenging the ADD-ADHD deniers out there. You are among friends here and I sincerely hope you will continue to express your thoughts here.
October 7th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
I was closing out on this, and happened to see this response.. Okay, I have egg on my face.. My apologies! Even though I was upset at the comment, I had visited Jeff’s blog and did actually appreciate his comments that challenged the Naysayers!
The problem with the internet, sometimes sarcasm or witt may be lost, and of course we ADHDR’s are ultra sensitive.. So again, I apologize, for my lack of sense of humor and taking this personal!
Keep up the Good work Guys.. We need more voices out there to Challenge those that Really Don’t understand.
I do have a question for both of you guys. Jeff you seem to be very versed in internet research..
I have been trying to find out if the Dr has been personally involved in ANY clinical or Scientific clinical research to back up his claims. I haven’t been able to find anything. Which makes me wonder, how does this guy have so much authority?
Especially when one considers the following quote-
“Although he is frequently cited by CCHR and has written articles in support of Applied Scholastics, Dr. Baughman is generally regarded as an unrepresentative and ill-informed voice on learning disabilities. The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) told the Congressional Committee on Education and the Workforce in a letter of September 29, 2000 that Dr. Baughman “represent[s] fringe opinions about the disorder and about psychiatry.” His position is certainly at odds with mainstream research and ignores the findings of a huge amount of research from around the world.”
It seems amazing to me, that he has gained such a mass following..
Thanks so Much for responding
Rebecca
October 7th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Regardless of his credibility (or lack thereof), the bottom line as you very well emulated is that he is both denying and avoiding how to deal with, control, and leverage a person’s ADD-ADHD, regardless if he wants to use these terms or not. There are many so-called “intellectuals” that can write a great grant proposal, make great heaps of money off awarded funding, then concoct a bunch of publications to justify this money, then solve absolutely nothing.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Rebecca,
Sorry if the sarcasm threw you off base…that was not the intention.
1. Where did you find the NAMI quote from Sept. 2000? Is it on the web? If yes, what is the URL?
2. I don’t really have any special internet search capabilities other than, perhaps, being quite stubborn (I don’t give up easily). If Baughman has actually been involved in research on the subject, it would have come up in a search…and I did see any reference to it.
3. His following may not be all that large…though he may be quite vocal.
Jeff
October 8th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Jeff, N/P,
The quote ironically was found also on a scientology site.. http://www.studytech.org/study_tech3.php
Here are some other links and interesting facts as well.. he appears to have a very strong Scientology backing
“Though they are not unbiased in this debate, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) testified in a letter to Congress that Dr. Baughman “represent[s] fringe opinions” about psychiatry.
As for the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, this righteously-named group was founded by the Church of Scientology with a charter to attack psychiatrists and the psychiatric profession. For those who don’t know their history, Scientology is a cult that considers the field of medicine, and particularly psychiatry, as evil incarnate. I recommend Garry Armstrong’s site for a good explanation of why. I don’t whether CCHR is behind this bill or just supporting it, but their association with it in any form makes me worried.”
http://www.docbug.com/blog/archives/2004_01.html
An active opponent of the ADHD diagnosis, Baughman has been a child neurologist, in private practice, for 35 years. He is also a medical expert for the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), an advocacy group founded by the Church of Scientology in 1969. -> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front…ing/interviews/
An interview in Freedom Magazine which is published by Scientology ->http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol31I2/page02.htm
and another -> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF…d%20scientology
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF NEUROLOGY LETTER TO THE CHAIRMAN
The American Academy of Neurology (AAN) sent a letter on October 5 to the Chairman on the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, Representative Peter Hoekstra, to clarify misreprensation of the AAN at the September 29 hearing. The letter referred to the participation of AAN member Dr. Fred Baughman. As NAMI readers will recall from previous E-News and the testimony above, Dr. Baughman, described by the subcommittee in its press release announcing the hearing as a child neurologist with a career studying “real, bona fide diseases,” called AD/HD “the biggest fraud in America.” He called both AD/HD and mental illnesses “a neuro-biological lie.” Later he called “psychiatry as a profession,” a “fraud.” The Academy letter acknowledges that Dr. Baughman is a member of the AAN, but clearly stated that he was not representing the AAN when he appeared before the Subcommittee. The letter goes on to state that this separation should be observed “in case Dr. Baughman addresses your subcommittee in the future.”
———————-
Frankly, I was first astounded and then outraged that the subcommittee would schedule a series of witnesses who are so clearly unrepresentative of the great majority of dedicated, concerned, and conscientious parents and professionals working to find the best treatments for children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. In addition, I was amazed that two of the subcommittee’s three physician witnesses would represent fringe opinions about the disorder and about psychiatry. Finally, I found it remarkable that the subcommittee was apparently not interested in the decades of research about attention deficit disorder conducted by the federal government — or in the opinions of either the Director of the National Institute of Mental Health or the Surgeon General of the United States about these medical issues. Because of the extraordinarily biased selection of witnesses, it is perhaps understandable that the Chairman might reach the conclusion that there is no professional consensus about even the existence of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Nothing could be further from the truth.
http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/E-News/20003/October_20002/NAMI_Submits_Testimony_To_Congressional_Subcommittee_On_Hearing_That_Questioned_The_Legitimacy_Of_Me.htm
Also some excellent scientific proof http://psych.colorado.edu/~willcutt/pdfs/Barkley_2002.pdf ** International Consensus Statement on ADHD
We, the undersigned consortium of international scientists, are deeply concerned about the periodic inaccurate portrayal of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in media reports. This is a disorder with which we are all very familiar and toward which many of us have dedicated scientific studies if not entire careers. We fear that inaccurate stories rendering ADHD as myth, fraud, or benign condition may cause thousands of sufferers not to seek treatment for their disorder. It also leaves the public with a general sense that this disorder is not valid or real or consists of a rather trivial affliction……
In regards to the criticism that they have received they have a rebuttal found here http://www.campaignon.com/adhdenoughsenough/International%20Consensus%20Statement/default.aspx Critique or Misrepresentation? A Reply to Timimi et al. Russell A. Barkley1,4 and 20 Coendorsers2,3
Lastly, CCHR, CCHR was established in 1969 by the Church of Scientology to investigate and expose psychiatric violations of human rights. It has been responsible for the reform of more than 100 laws worldwide that now provide rights and protections to individuals in the mental health system.
The Awards(sic CCHR) Banquet also featured renowned pediatric neurologist, Dr. Fred Baughman, Jr., who spoke about the absence of science and medicine behind such ubiquitous psychiatric labels as ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), calling the so-called mental illness a “total 100% fraud.” Such for-profit “disorders” yield the mental health industry more than $15 billion a year for their diagnoses, treatment and studies. http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien352.html
October 8th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
the link for pbs did not go through.. it may also to mention that I got those three from an ADHD forum..
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/interviews/
His followers unfortunately are very influential.. see the following “What drove members of a highly respected psychiatric research group to defy the Swedish courts and destroy 15 years’ worth of irreplaceable data? A decade after the Gillberg affair began, Jonathan Gornall examines the facts ” — the facts are the influence of the Search of Scientology http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/335/7616/370
http://www.cchr.org/index.cfm/12906 Celebrities Call on FDA to Issue ADHD Drug Warnings Following Reports of Suicide, Psychosis, Heart Attacks and Death of Children With Death Toll From ADHD Drugs Rising – Children’s Advocates Demand FDA Quit Listening to Vested Drug Interests and Issue “Black Box” Warnings
October 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Whats the deal with Bob Collier anyway (clearly not an expert-has he spent any significant amount of time with ADHD adults?). Why is his son home school ? Can’t help wondering that teachers may have suggested his kid was ADHD so he yanked him out of school and has been in denial since ? Anyone any ideas ?
October 14th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Actually, that is quite an interesting spin on Mr. Collier. Why would he even be motivated to take on the concept of ADD-ADHD? One place that Bob Collier and Dr. Baughman have not been is all of the forums, internet groups that endless with people that are ADD or ADHD that are looking for concrete solutions. Mr. Collier and Dr. Baughman have neither.
Thank you for posting and hope you will come back often to share your thoughts!
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